April 14, 2025
Yes, And Caregiving: The Improv Act You Didn’t Audition For
When a loved one develops dementia, our instinct is often to correct their misperceptions and pull them back to our reality. But what if there's a more compassionate, effective approach hiding in an unlikely place – Improv?
In today's episode, we speak with Dr. Candace Kemp and Amanda Lee Williams about their research showing how improv principles can transform Dementia care. At the heart of their approach is the fundamental improv concept of "yes, and" – accepting whatever reality is presented and building upon it rather than contradicting it. When Amanda's father with Parkinson's dementia believed he needed to prepare for a board meeting, instead of correcting him, she asked to hear his speech. The result? Reduced anxiety and a meaningful connection.
What makes this work particularly valuable is the scientific validation behind these techniques. Supported by institutions including the NIH and NIA, the research demonstrates that these improv-based approaches lead to more successful interactions across various care settings. The evidence confirms what many family members discover through trial and error – meeting people where they are produces better outcomes than trying to force them back to our reality.
Have you struggled with connecting with a loved one who has dementia? How might viewing yourself as a "care partner" rather than a "caregiver" change your approach? Join us as we explore this revolutionary intersection of comedy and care that's changing lives.
Visit improvingthroughimprov.com and gerontology.gsu.edu for more information about Dr. Candace and Amanda's work.
Host: J Smiles Comedy
Producer: Mia Hall
DP: Annelise Udoye
Join us on Patreon for behind the scenes and special offers: patreon.com/jsmilesstudios
"Alzheimer's is heavy but we ain't gotta be!"
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Be sure to leave us a review!
00:00 - The Power of Yes And
03:18 - Introducing the Dynamic Duo
08:25 - Amanda's Journey with Her Father
16:36 - Research & Relationships in Care Settings
21:57 - Improv Techniques for Better Care
29:01 - From Caregiver to Care Partner
34:38 - The Snuggle Ups: Three Key Takeaways
WEBVTT
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The concept of yes and and that is principle and improv where if we're doing a scene and you make an offer to me like we're going to Mars, then I'm going to say, yes, we're going to Mars, so I'm accepting your offer and we're wearing these hot pink suits.
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So I've accepted your offer and I'm building on it.
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Wherever we're going, exactly, we're definitely wearing hot pink suits.
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So I've accepted your offer and I'm building on it.
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Wherever we're going, exactly, we're definitely wearing hot pink suits.
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There's never a lack of those.
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So that's an improv.
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Whatever your partner offers you, you accept as the reality and you build on it.
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Things that help you do that are listening.
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Listening is one of the biggest notes that you get in improv.
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Like Amanda, I didn't think you were listening very well in that scene.
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You really have to be keyed in the eye contact we were talking about.
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Those are all things that'll help you accept the offer that's given and then build on it.
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Parenting Up Caregiving Adventures with Comedian Jay Smiles is the intense journey of unexpectedly being fully responsible for my mama.
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For over a decade I've been chipping away at the unknown, advocating for her and pushing Alzheimer's awareness on anyone and anything with a heartbeat.
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Spoiler alert this shit is heavy.
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That's why I started doing comedy.
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So be ready for the jokes.
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Caregiver newbies, ogs and village members just willing to prop up a caregiver, you are in the right place.
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Hi, this is Zeddy.
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I hope you enjoy my daughter's podcast.
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Is that okay?
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Today's supporter shout out is from YouTube Nicole Houston Johnson, 8405.
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This was very helpful.
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My 90-year-old grandmother is very independent.
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This was very helpful.
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My 90 year old grandmother is very independent Dot dot dot.
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Still able to cook, clean and drive short distances.
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However, I do worry that she may be lonely sometimes.
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She has outlived all her siblings, friends and church connections.
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I will continue to ask what she enjoys, encourage my children to call her weekly and extended family to call consistently.
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Thank you so much for that whole point and for giving us so much detail.
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It does matter those loved ones of ours who age gracefully and hang on and end by themselves.
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We got to give them a little extra snuggle up, if you would like to be a shout out recipient, you know what to do Leave a review.
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I would prefer if it's on Apple Podcasts, but you know it could be YouTube or Instagram.
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We're the same everywhere.
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Parenting up Thank you in advance.
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Today's episode yes.
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And caregiving, the improv act.
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You did not audition for Parenting up family.
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Y'all know how I feel and you know how we do this.
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How do I get so excited each and every time?
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Well, it's because the dementia universe keeps blessing us with more and more reasons to make sure our community keeps enough fuel to go on and on, and on and on.
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Today we have what I call the dynamic duo, these two ladies, females, chicks, gals, whatever you want to call them.
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They are busting wide open the notion that you can't be a caregiver for years, that you got to do it by yourself, that you got to be sad.
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One of them does a whole bunch of research with a whole lot of papers and uses big old words that you might not understand, and the other one gets on stage and acts a fool.
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Now, y'all know a combo like that.
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How happy am I?
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All right, how y'all doing.
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Wonderful.
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Thank you so much.
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So in a very in a more formal sense, I would like to introduce Dr Candice Kemp.
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Hello everyone.
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My pleasure to be here today.
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Thank you so much for having us.
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Yes, and then.
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Amanda Lee Williams.
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Hello.
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Now, I met both of you through this wonderful lecture series that was presented by well in conjunction with Georgia State University, parenting Up Family.
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For those of you who are listening and not watching us, it was amazing.
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I didn't even take notes and it's so rare that I don't take notes, but that's how glued I was to listening and watching your presentation Improving care through improv.
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We could almost stop the whole podcast episode right now.
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Just the thought we're going to improve care through improv that's radical.
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That is a radical notion that it can even be done, let alone you're going to teach other people how to do it.
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Who decided that that was worth investigating?
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decided that that was worth investigating.
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Come on, Dr Camp.
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Both of us we kind of came to this idea of improv and the value of improv in teaching the communication skills, the ability to be in the moment, to accept where people are and to meet them where they are, to make people look good and to collaborate, and to meet them where they are, to make people look good and to collaborate all seem to be really important skills in caregiving and also lead to successful improv performances.
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We aren't the first people to do this.
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Karen Stobie and her partner, Mondi Carter, have been doing this for a long time.
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We're the first people to do research really to this extent, although there have been a few other researchers who've done some small studies.
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So, yeah, we put our research brains together and our improviser brain together, and here we are.
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Dr Candice is being humble, I'm not going to allow it.
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Anyway, there's some other people that did something kind of like it.
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It's like somebody saying, yeah, I, you know, kind of, were in flight to before the Wright brothers, but OK, but were you really, though Nobody saw it and you didn't build something better to let two people get in the plane.
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So I'm giving you all the credit because I've been out here in these caregiving streets doing stand-up comedy and the way you all connect the two, it feels a little different.
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Thank you, but I'll let you be humble and we're going to move right on.
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We're standing on other people's shoulders.
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I'll give you that.
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I'll give you that.
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I'll give you that.
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What made you all say we have this information, we know it works and we're going to teach other people how to do it?
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I'll take it.
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Well, when I first learned about Karen Stobie's work, I started trying it with my dad, who had Parkinson's dementia, and it worked so well and I had already been an improviser, um.
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And so, seeing that, I was so excited, um, about that idea that once we partnered up, we, we, we knew we had to spread the word, the good word, and I've been teaching improv and theater since 1998.
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So I felt like our two skills combined really helped, and for Candice to be able to add legitimacy to what I was thinking about really was different.
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I love it.
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Yeah, I love it.
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Now you mentioned that your father had Parkinson's.
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Your father is no longer physically on Earth.
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Is that correct, Correct?
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What's something that's very important to our community here Parenting up is we're primarily family caregivers.
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There are a lot of people in the community because we're.
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We have members all over the globe.
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Now we're very excited about that.
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Yay, everybody.
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Everyone likes to know.
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We've gotten feedback Like how did you, your family, recognize something's not quite right with dad and we probably need to get him seen by a doctor?
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What was some of the first things that let you know?
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This is not that.
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Yeah, well, he had gotten the Parkinson's just Parkinson's diagnosis probably 2002, but the dementia side of things didn't kick in really noticeably until maybe 10 years later or so where we really started noticing things.
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The first thing was my dad was like CFO of a company a nursing home company actually Whoa, I know, and so smart, such a great business guy and he started buying like properties where we were like what, just making weird business decisions.
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We were like what, Just making weird business decisions.
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The other thing was his executive functioning was not happening the way it used to, so like he got up on a ladder, he fell.
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This is like a shortened version of this.
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Two days later he got up on the same ladder, he fell, and then he kept doing it, even though he and my mom had talked, like you can't get up on that ladder doing it, even though he and my mom had talked, like you can't get up on that ladder you don't have, like the Parkinson's is too much for you, and he couldn't either remember or make the make a right choice.
00:10:12.886 --> 00:10:38.679
And I think one thing that I wish someone had told me is dementia is not always memory based, that there's a lot of different signs that I probably could have seen earlier, but those were the first two, and the day that I knew like we had a real problem was we had lost my parents dog and everybody was just like, okay, we got to find Meg and that's a cool name for a dog.
00:10:38.821 --> 00:10:44.638
Yeah, she was a good dog and so we were all looking around.
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Suddenly I didn't see papa well, that's why I call him papa and um.
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So I got in the truck and started looking for him and he was walking down the middle of the road and it's like a busy road with a turn and I was like get in the car and that's what I was like.
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I gotta move home, we gotta, you know.
00:11:05.495 --> 00:11:13.506
So those are kind of like starting with the land, then the ladder, and then those are like the ones that stick in my memory the most.
00:11:13.527 --> 00:11:18.239
Yeah, yeah those are, those were your points of pain.
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That said, this is different yeah, this is different.
00:11:21.525 --> 00:11:28.118
A lot of times, my mom and I would be like just having a hard time accepting it and be like this is weird, right?
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Yeah, this is weird, you know, like something's not you know, but it was hard to because he was very good at masking, because he was very smart, and so he would trick us and they're like oh, everything seems normal now.
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Just had a bad day.
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Yeah, just had a bad day, and then there would be three bad days and then it just started to become all the time.
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That's the other thing I wish someone had told me which probably you've already told your audience but is that it's not like a steady downward, it was like a roller coaster.
00:11:57.645 --> 00:12:02.527
Yeah, no, but it's great for you to say it.
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It doesn't matter what I may have said.
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The more people who give a story that may have similar points, then different members of the community can say all right, okay.
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It starts to sink in and it takes a minute for it to sink in.
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Yeah.
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Denial is major.
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Yeah, you don't want that to be your reality.
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No, it's not for a long time.
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Yeah.
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You're in denial.
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I think we, the family members, can be in denial, maybe as much as the person who is suffering, because you're like no, not my dad, not my mom, and don't, hey, if I didn't, you just jump right in there and pop me all around.
00:12:45.879 --> 00:12:53.722
You have not experienced being a caregiver for someone in your immediate family.
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Is that correct?
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Not dementia related.
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Not dementia related.
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Yes.
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Okay, yes, I knew it was something.
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I'm now pointing at the camera saying I was something, something like that.
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I'm now pointing at the camera saying something like that.
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I find it fascinating.
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The amount of research that you are digging in and doing that is groundbreaking in an area that you don't have personal experience.
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That is not the most typical way that you find someone like yourself, with their mission and their why, so please share with us.
00:13:32.168 --> 00:13:38.965
Let us know like what is that burning desire little pit in your belly that got you so caught up in these weeds?
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I think being very passionate about wanting to improve quality of life and quality of care, very passionate about wanting to improve quality of life and quality of care, and the work that I've done is inspired by my family and watching and participating in caring for family members.
00:13:53.918 --> 00:14:24.696
Not everyone has had experience with dementia in my family, but we have experienced people living in long-term care settings and that's kind of what brought me to do work in long-term care, and the more time that I spend in long-term care, the more experience I have with dementia and seeing people who have dementia and also people who are caring for loved ones with dementia or care staff as well, and that just seems to be a huge area of need.
00:14:24.696 --> 00:14:44.426
Caregiving for anybody with any situation can be challenging, but I think adding dementia into the equation can add different challenges and so, I think, compassion and also seeing a need and, hopefully, an ability to make a difference.
00:14:44.926 --> 00:14:48.006
Yeah, the two of you are making a huge difference.
00:14:48.006 --> 00:14:57.471
I mean, I was speechless in the middle of your program and I kept nudging my team saying did you see that?
00:14:57.471 --> 00:14:58.591
Like, how did they?
00:14:58.591 --> 00:15:12.437
Those two sides of our brain, and certainly sides of industry, don't even want to get along.
00:15:12.437 --> 00:15:33.384
And here you all are married on the front end, nobody's even having to make you all you know, mesh, and so I want to congratulate you all on having the foresight to put it together from the beginning, when you are now bringing it to society, so to speak, something that I saw.
00:15:33.384 --> 00:16:08.537
Thank you so much, dr Kent, for bringing up the assisted living facilities, because I've seen this and you actually did extra research on this, which is relationships and even like how people are getting along, how their sex and all of these things that's going on in assisted living, because it's happening A lot, because now people are living without chaperones, they don't have to go to work you know what I mean they don't have nothing to do and it's their home.
00:16:09.226 --> 00:16:12.267
So, it is home, but ideally.
00:16:12.267 --> 00:16:18.158
Well, we've signed them in and nobody comes to sign them out, Right?
00:16:18.158 --> 00:16:23.005
But you've even dug into how those relationships work, Correct?
00:16:23.005 --> 00:16:37.777
So share a little bit about that with us, because I have lots of caregivers in the community who they don't know how to feel when their LO in assisted living may or may not be intimate with somebody.
00:16:37.777 --> 00:16:40.385
And they get that call and they're weird.
00:16:41.826 --> 00:16:42.086
Right.
00:16:42.086 --> 00:16:56.855
Well, in the work that we've done, we actually have identified intimacy as a care need and so if you think about intimacy more broadly not just including the sexual contact or the romantic situation you're touched, maybe not in the most loving way.
00:16:56.855 --> 00:17:19.960
So, thinking about the importance of touch and that tactile piece, that becomes really important and something that sometimes people miss.
00:17:19.960 --> 00:17:38.300
I think the sexual intimacy also is a really important piece and it often freaks family members out and I think there are important ethical considerations when considering consent, when people maybe living with dementia and don't necessarily have the capacity to consent.
00:17:38.300 --> 00:17:56.969
If family members and staff can work with the person, if there are those needs.
00:17:56.969 --> 00:18:00.596
That's a human, that's a sort of basic human need and trying to figure out what the best solution is to improve quality of life and quality of care.
00:18:00.636 --> 00:18:03.624
So I wouldn't automatically try to shut it down, but it's trying to work collaboratively, collaboratively, to find a solution.
00:18:03.624 --> 00:18:04.125
That's a great way.
00:18:04.125 --> 00:18:05.829
Yes, I would like to publicly state.
00:18:05.829 --> 00:18:22.714
That keeps people safe that if I should be diagnosed with dementia, I would like someone to collaboratively try to help me be intimate with somebody that wants to consent To collaboratively be intimate with me back Collaboratively.
00:18:23.958 --> 00:18:24.118
Right.
00:18:24.118 --> 00:18:29.644
So I think you know it's thinking about what's meaningful engagement, and for some people it is that sexual interaction.
00:18:29.765 --> 00:18:37.348
Yeah, or just a hug and a good slow dance, you know, whatever that may be, yes, whatever that may be, hey, what's up?
00:18:37.348 --> 00:18:39.476
Parented Up family, guess what.
00:18:39.476 --> 00:18:42.474
Have you ever wanted to connect with other caregivers?
00:18:42.474 --> 00:18:45.653
You want to see more behind-the-scenes footage?
00:18:45.653 --> 00:18:47.972
Want to know what me and Zeddy are doing?
00:18:47.972 --> 00:18:50.846
I know you do All things.
00:18:50.846 --> 00:18:57.272
Jsmiles are finally ready for you, even when I go live.
00:18:57.272 --> 00:19:02.035
Do it now with us on Patreon.
00:19:02.035 --> 00:19:06.154
Join us in the Patreon community.
00:19:06.154 --> 00:19:08.732
Catch everything we're doing.
00:19:08.732 --> 00:19:11.789
Visit patreoncom forward.
00:19:11.789 --> 00:19:20.951
Slash JSmilesStudios with an S the improv portion of things.
00:19:20.951 --> 00:19:23.537
Amanda, here we go.
00:19:23.537 --> 00:19:32.019
There are things and you all have to figure out somewhere when these two take their show on the road.
00:19:32.019 --> 00:19:56.887
And I'm going to try to push to get more and more research dollars, which I think is also fascinating the amount of institutions that support your work the National Institutes of Health, the National Institutes on Aging, georgia State Emory, the technical schools of nursing, like I was like.
00:19:56.887 --> 00:19:59.296
Oh yes, thank you so much.
00:20:00.986 --> 00:20:03.976
Health and Health Resources and Services Administration.
00:20:03.976 --> 00:20:07.724
Thank you, georgia Gear and Dad's Garage.
00:20:07.724 --> 00:20:08.786
And Dad's.
00:20:08.806 --> 00:20:14.750
Garage, yes, and that alone speaks volumes.
00:20:14.750 --> 00:20:31.087
To have those heavy hitters and community organizations that are on the ground doing a bunch of work, seeing something that is as transformative as this, and saying, yeah, we're with you, here's the money, here are the resources.
00:20:31.087 --> 00:20:32.509
Go figure this out.
00:20:32.509 --> 00:20:33.750
This has legs.
00:20:35.113 --> 00:20:41.320
Yay, yeah, I think everybody, if you're lucky enough to keep living, gets old.
00:20:41.320 --> 00:20:45.549
So it is, you're going to be an older adult, you're going to need some help.
00:20:45.549 --> 00:21:02.868
So I think that's what like I don't know, but I feel like that's why everyone can connect to it, because, whether there's dementia involved or not, there's sort of that universal like I'm a person and I'm going to get older and I want someone to help me, you know.
00:21:03.390 --> 00:21:03.851
Absolutely.
00:21:03.851 --> 00:21:20.775
What are some of the techniques or principles of improv that you feel transfer the easiest, that you can share with us here, even though someone has not gone through your wonderful sessions and they could?
00:21:21.056 --> 00:21:21.436
grasp.
00:21:21.436 --> 00:21:38.844
The first one is like a concept, I would say, is that part of improvising is connecting with the person on stage and, you know, making them look good, making it where we're making eye contact and we're a partnership.
00:21:38.844 --> 00:21:56.450
I feel like as you get older, and especially as you have dementia, a lot of your rights are taken away, a lot of your everything is taken away, and so, remembering that this is a human person and that you two are in this together and that is part of what I love about improv I tried stand up.
00:21:56.450 --> 00:21:58.611
I was not good at it.
00:21:58.611 --> 00:22:02.957
Go ahead and whisper that into the mic.
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I'm going to whisper into the mic.
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No one's going to hear me.
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I was terrible at it.
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But I think that's because I like that partnership, that collaboration.
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So if you think of it like that and you remember that you've got a human person that wants to be loved, that wants to be cared for, I think that's at the core.
00:22:22.365 --> 00:22:27.156
But then the second thing would be the concept of yes and.
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And that is a principle in improv, where if we're doing a scene and you make an offer to me like we're going to Mars, then I'm going to say yes, we're going to Mars, so I'm accepting your offer, and we're wearing these hot pink suits, so I've accepted your offer and I'm building on it.
00:22:51.704 --> 00:22:55.417
Absolutely the hot pink suits wherever we're going Exactly.
00:22:55.417 --> 00:22:57.125
We're definitely wearing hot pink suits.
00:22:57.125 --> 00:23:02.238
There's never a lack of those, yeah, so that is a huge thing.
00:23:02.238 --> 00:23:19.213
So, whatever you're, so that's an improv and then taking it over to being a care partner whatever your partner offers you, you accept as the reality and you build on it, and there's so many different ways to do that.
00:23:19.213 --> 00:23:23.345
Things that help you do that are listening, like.
00:23:23.345 --> 00:23:29.188
That seems like obvious, I feel like, but listening is one of the biggest notes that you get in improv.
00:23:29.188 --> 00:23:38.648
Like Amanda, I didn't think you were listening very well in that scene because so much is coming at you so fast you really have to be keyed in the eye contact we were talking about.
00:23:38.648 --> 00:23:44.130
Those are all things that will help you accept the offer that's given and then build on it.
00:23:44.130 --> 00:23:47.616
I could give you an example if you'd like, please.
00:23:47.616 --> 00:23:49.626
Okay, this is a pretty simple one.
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My dad kept being stressed because he worked in nursing homes and then he was in one while he was in assisted living, but it felt similar.
00:23:59.653 --> 00:24:06.096
He kept thinking he was working and so he would be stressed because he would be like.
00:24:06.096 --> 00:24:12.013
I have so many meetings today and I hated to see him stressed, but it also seemed like he kind of liked it.
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I wasn't really sure.
00:24:13.116 --> 00:24:15.048
That's not the point, okay.
00:24:15.769 --> 00:24:31.369
So one day I came in and this was after I had started trying some improv stuff and this doesn't seem like a crazy thing, but I wasn't doing this previously he said I'm really nervous because I have a big speech to give to the board today.
00:24:31.369 --> 00:24:40.974
And so I was like, okay, so I said yes, like I accepted that he had a speech to give to the board, yes, and let me hear it.
00:24:40.974 --> 00:24:58.749
So then he, although he was not verbal enough to really give me the actual speech, he felt such a relief after, after going through his notes, um, that that he had been heard, and that's what anybody wants, is to feel heard and validated.
00:24:58.749 --> 00:25:06.288
Instead of before I would have said oh, you're fine, you don't, you know, you're not, you're retired, kick back, you know.
00:25:06.288 --> 00:25:08.154
Which is literally what I was saying before.
00:25:08.154 --> 00:25:16.132
He was so much happier that day and that was me accepting and building on his offer, and so, yeah, that would be a good example.
00:25:17.107 --> 00:25:18.424
That is a good example.
00:25:19.166 --> 00:25:22.174
I just want to add that research bears this out.
00:25:22.174 --> 00:25:33.846
So the work that we've been doing watching care partners whether they be family members or friends, or care staff in long-term care communities, healthcare providers, when they use these approaches, they have more success.
00:25:33.846 --> 00:25:50.305
So the yes and the listening, the meeting people where they're at, and just that whole concept of being flexible and being open to accepting that reality.
00:25:50.424 --> 00:25:51.846
And being empathetic and listening.
00:25:51.846 --> 00:26:07.773
I think that really can't be stressed enough, that the listening and having somebody be heard is really important, and the validation, yeah, and so the work bears that out, and so it's not just anecdotal evidence.
00:26:07.773 --> 00:26:08.616
I would say yeah.
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Two things that I've heard numerous times here with you all.
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Is you say care partner and not caregiver?
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